69 South
Podcast 69 South is about mystery, true crime, attempting to find the truth in a world full of chaos. We dig deep in to current and past true crime incidents. Reporting what we find to our listeners. We want to become your reliable source for all things relevant, while we live in a society that is truly lost.
69 South
A Life Twisted by Violence: Richard Kuklinski Part 2
Is there a way to blend the ordinary with the sinister? This episode of the 69 South Podcast takes you into the treacherous world of Richard Kuklinski, better known as "The Iceman." We begin by examining his deadly arsenal, notably his preference for cyanide, a method taught to him by poison expert Paul Hoffman. Discover Kuklinski's chilling business dealings with Phil Salamine and his ruthless interactions with the notorious Roy DeMeo—the dark intricacies of a life steeped in deception and death are unveiled.
We'll also discuss Kuklinski's twisted mentorship with Robert Prong, alias Mr. Softee, who masked his lethal profession behind an ice cream truck facade. Prong armed Kuklinski with even more covert killing techniques, like a lethal cyanide spray. Hear about some of Kuklinski’s most infamous hits, including the assassination of mob boss Carmine Galante and the paranoid spiral that led him to eliminate even his closest associates, sealing his fate as law enforcement closed in.
Finally, we recount the dramatic sting operation that ultimately brought Kuklinski down, detailing his arrest during a fake cyanide deal and the betrayals that led to his conviction. You’ll learn about his subsequent life behind bars and his haunting reflections on his violent career. The episode concludes with a look at the controversies surrounding his many alleged crimes and the authenticity of his chilling confessions, encouraging listeners to explore his notorious HBO interviews for themselves. Join us for this gripping dive into the dark world of mob hitmen, and stay tuned for our next major investigation.
Welcome everyone to podcast 69 south, where we discuss and discuss true crime, cold cases, current events and hot topics, along with our state of society today. This is your trigger warning. Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners, 18 years of age and older. We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering to some listeners. Sit back, relax and enjoy.
Speaker 1:I would move heaven, hell and anything in between to get to you. You wouldn't be safe anywhere if I was mad at you. And that's that bull dip. That's the truth. I've went up against people. You can pull a gun on me and if I'm mad at you I'm coming forward. You'd have to shoot me to stop me, and if you don't kill me, you're stupid. So next time you see me, I will kill you.
Speaker 2:I will kill you. Kuklinski says Welcome to 69 South Podcast. I'm Chop and I'm your host today. I'm glad to be back with you, I'm glad to be telling this story to you, and I hope you guys had a good time since the last time. So, without delay, we're going to get right back into the story.
Speaker 2:Richard Kuklinski was still business partners with Phil Salamine. He was the guy who started selling the stuff that had the store in Pennsylvania, and Richard was trying to find new ways of killing people and assassinating people. It was getting a little bit too messy for him, even though he seemed to enjoy killing and torturing people. But I think that his job requirements led him to be killing and assassinating so many people that he wanted to start trying poisons, maybe a little bit easier, in a faster way. Well, phil Solomon introduced him to a guy named Paul Hoffman, and Paul Hoffman was a poison specialist. He knew everything about cyanide and different ways to kill. He taught Richard the best way to use cyanide. He taught him the right amounts to use to not be detected. He could also get Richard as much cyanide as he needed. So to try this out, someone had put a hit on a man named Tony Scavelli. So Richard followed him around and caught him going into a disco. Richard walked into the disco and I guess the guy was just cutting a rug up on the dance floor. Richard had a little bitty needle and he walked up on the dance floor and kind of injected him with it. It was reported that Scavelli went down within a minute and was dead. It was also reported that he died of a heart attack. So I guess what Richard Kuklinski said, that when he used just the right amount it would metabolize into the body before they even started doing tests on you. So it was killing them quick and no evidence. Kuklinski loved how easy and how fast that went, so he started using that quite a bit. He said that he had five hit men that were basically co-employees with him and he had gotten nervous that they were talking or that they were going to kill him. And he killed all of them with putting cyanide on their sandwiches. And the fifth one wasn't there. He got the guy at the bar the next day and put a little bit in his drink, killed him too.
Speaker 2:Could you imagine being a hitman and working for the mob back then? I mean you would have to be in a state of paranoia all the time. I mean all the killing going on and five different families. I mean they were constantly killing each other, killing this guy, that guy, everybody was coked up, fucked up and you would have to think everybody was out to get you all the time, man, watching your back. It would be crazy to even imagine or think about Now, about this time, roy DeMeo. He became a made man in the crime families and one of the premier hit men and, like I said earlier, richard couldn't be a made man so he was still underneath DeMeo, reason being because if you're not Italian then you couldn't be made.
Speaker 2:Now it's not really clear on how the chain of command went, but I'm sure you guys have heard the name Jimmy Hoffa. There's been decades of rumors and conspiracy theories about what happened to Hoffa. Hoffa was the president of the Teamsters Union and it was said that he was involved in the mob and he used the mob to basically make trucking companies sign contracts with the Teamsters, so they would use violence and anything like that to get what they needed done. Kuklinski said that the job was given to Sal Berguglio to put a hit out on Jimmy Hoffa and he said that he had done the job and buried Jimmy Hoffa. Well, it got rumored around that this Sal Berguglio was talking to the cops and again, it was probably just rumors and paranoid shit.
Speaker 2:But they dug Jimmy Hoffa up and kiklinski said that they had put him, took him to a scrap yard and cubed him up in a little car. You know how they take cars and they cube them up. Well, back then they were doing that, just completely smashing the car into like a two foot by three foot cube, and they were sending this stuff all to Japan and scrapping it. When they, the cubes, would get over there they would put it in a big incinerator and melt it all down. Everything in the car, the seeds, but bodies obviously and no one would be the wiser about it you'd never find anything he said that he kidnapped and killed jimmy hoffa and they buried him.
Speaker 2:Well, once again, all this paranoid shit. It was rumored around that the Sal assassin was talking to the police. So Richard Kuklinski said he was given the job by DeMeo to take care of the guy. Quiet the dude down. So Richard went to this dude in Little Italy in New York and he shot him in the back of the head. It was just ruled as another mob hit. Kuklinski was never looked at for this one.
Speaker 2:Now, around this time, the guy they called Mr Softy I don't know if you've ever heard of him or not, his name was Robert Prong. What he did was he drove around an ice cream truck and that was kind of his disguise that he hid behind. He was a hit man, also for the mob. So if you heard that shit coming around the streets of New Jersey you didn't know whether to run and get you a push up or head for the hills. Now, mr Softee and Richard they ran in the same circles and their paths crossed a few times in New Jersey. I don't know if Richard was going up there getting my Astro Pop to start talking to him or what, but Mr Softee taught Richard how to mix primethyl sulfoxide in with the cyanide and it would make a little bitty liquid and they would put it in spray bottles, man, and I guess you could just walk by somebody and spray just a little bit of this on their skin and it would absorb through the skin and drop them like a bad habit. Pretty efficient, man, if you ask me. I didn't even know shit like that existed until I started investigating this story. They started hanging around each other, started doing jobs together, taking each other on different jobs and trying to compete with each other in a way. Keep all Mr Softy's Richard Prong's name in mind, because he's going to come in to the story a little bit later Now.
Speaker 2:About 1979, there was a gangster called Carmine Galate. He was the leader of the Bonanno crime family and he had went to jail and when he got out of jail he was just completely out of control and the other four families, they just couldn't stand him. He was bringing a lot of heat on the mob, he was just causing trouble. So the job was given to Richard Kuklinski by the other crime families and DeMeo is the one that suggested Richard Kuklinski to do the job. So on July 12, 1979, kuklinski snuck up on him and shot old Carmine Galante in the back of the head. Now that was a pretty big hit, man, and it was hot and it was big news in New Jersey that one of the crime bosses had been assassinated. So Kuklinski laid low for about three days and he did what any hitman would do man he chilled out, took his kids to Disney World. I'm sure that hit paid a pretty penny. So he kind of chilled for about a year after that.
Speaker 2:And Richard Kuklinski said the next time he killed somebody he was right in a van with a business partner named George Malabon. He said that they got to an argument and George had threatened Richard's family. He said I shot him five times in the head and put him in a 55-gallon drum. Now this is kind of a big deal hit, because this is where his demise started. Coming to the picture, he rolled the drum down near a chemical plant in New Jersey and the 55-gallon drum sat there for a couple of days and it didn't roll far enough down into the bay and the police found the 55-gallon drum and they identified Maliband as being the one in it.
Speaker 2:When the police were investigating this, maliband's brother had told police that the last time he saw Maliband was he was going to meet a guy named Big Rich and that's the first time that he had got on the police's radar. Now, when I say on the police's radar, I'm sure he'd been looked at or thought of, but I'm talking about Pat Kane. He is the detective whose radar that big rich got onto and ultimately would be the cause of richard's career to end. Shit was tightening up and getting hot for kuklinski and roy de mayo. He would been investigated by the fbi. Well, richard and de mayo had a meeting and richard said thatMeo looked frailed, he looked disheveled, looked like he'd been strung out. You could tell he wasn't taking care of himself. All the years of killing and doping and drinking and gambling and stuff had caught up with him. Demeo had heard that the FBI was investigating him and Richard could tell that DeMeo was getting nervous, which in turn DeMeo knew a lot about Richard's killing and all the jobs that he had done for and with DeMeo. So Richard decided to take him out. He shot him in the head and got rid of him.
Speaker 2:Not too long after that, richard Kuklinski and Mr Softy, his ice cream truck buddy, had a meeting. Well, mr Softy thought it'd be. It's wise to ask Richard if he would kill his wife and eight-year-old son. Kuklinski didn't like killing women and children. And there was another loose end. Mr Softee got pissed off because Richard declined on it and threatened Kuklinski's family, so they ultimately found Mr Softee dead in his ice cream truck. I don't wonder who was responsible for that. It seems like anybody, and everybody who disrespected or knew anything that was a loose end Kuklinski took care of, which is pretty smart if you're in that business Now at this point in time, there wasn't very few loose ends left.
Speaker 2:Who knew Richard Kuklinski good enough to know what he was doing and know his past? Phil Simone, the one that he had been in business with for a long time, selling stolen goods too. And Richard also had a crew of breaking and entering guys that would break into homes and steal everything they could. It was made up of Percy House, danny Deppner, gary Smith and Big Rich was the leader, and it wasn't long before stuff started to fall apart. With that, the noose was beginning to tighten on Kuklinski and I think he felt it. He had told his crew members to lay low and his buddy, phil, also to lay low. When he said lay low. He meant don't do anything, don't go see your family members, stay where I put you at and don't move.
Speaker 2:Gary Smith decided to go see his daughter. He had a five-year-old, and Kuklinski found out about it. Of course they were all under surveillance. So Richard Kuklinski and Danny Deppner they took him out. He was put in a 55-gallon drum with acid and stashed off in the woods. After they took care of him, he told Danny Deppner that he was going to hide him out for a little bit and to stay low, stay low. So he hid him in his daughter's fiance's house Big Rich's daughter. He laid there for a few days but Danny Detmer's wife was still available. Well, danny Detmer's wife had had an affair with Percy House and Detective Kane caught up with her. Well, she ultimately told Detective Kane who Big Rich was Richard Kuklinski. And when Big Rich heard that Danny Deppner's wife had talked to the detective, he went over to his daughter's fiance's house and killed him with a cyanide sandwich. I tell you what, after knowing this dude, I wouldn't eat a fucking sandwich he brought me. But when his daughter's fiance came home, kuklinski told him that Danny Dettner had OD'd on some drugs and talked him into helping him hide that body. Eventually, all the breaking and entering crew members were dead, danny Dettner's wife they found her deceased and it seems like Detective Kane. Every time he turned around, or he thought he had a witness they wound up dead.
Speaker 2:He was becoming obsessed with catching Kuklinski and it was almost like a game to him. But he was using a lot of police and FBI resources and eventually they wanted him to tone it down a little bit. Well, pat Kane was. He was too hot on his trail and he knew that Kuklinski was his man and he was bound and determined to get him. By this time it was an obsession and he was trying to think of everything. Now he knew Kuklinski had the life over in the subdivision and he knew that Kuklinski kept that completely separate.
Speaker 2:So Kane went over to Kuklinski's home and Kuklinski was there and I guess he took a couple of cops with him and made a big scene, took him out and questioned him. Well, kuklinski's wife and children didn't have a clue what was going on with Kuklinski, and neither did any of the neighbors. So this caused a little bit of a ruckus. Everybody wanted to know what was going on with Kuklinski and neither did any of the neighbors, so this caused a little bit of a ruckus. Everybody wanted to know what was going on with this enraged Kuklinski. He couldn't believe that this cop had the goal to come to his home to question him in front of his family and he was going to make this cop disappear. But he had a little bit of a problem. He couldn't just run up and put a gun in Detective Kane's face. And it seems that all his buddies that he was killing with cyanide with and getting his poisons from. Well, richard already took care of them.
Speaker 2:Kuklinski had one of his old buddies left and that was Phil Simone. But what Kuklinski didn't know is that Detective Kane had already gotten to Phil Simone and busted him on some charges. Well, phil Simone was getting soft, getting old and had a lot to lose as they had all kinds of evidence and stuff on him. Also, phil Simone, he had a son that was about ready to do a bit. So Phil Simone made a deal with Kane to try to infiltrate Kukleski.
Speaker 2:Detective Kane had a secret weapon also. His name was Dominique Pilafron. He was an FBI informant man, this dude. He looked like a gangster, he talked like a gangster. He'd also had infiltrated mob scenes before and got in tight with him. This dude looked the part man, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2:And Pat Kane and Dominic, they became a team to team up and try to bust Kuklinski, to bust Kuklinski. So they had Phil introduced Dominique to Richard as a trusted, proven friend which, coming from Phil, I guess that he had never done Richard before and probably the last you know known person in the business that Richard really trusted or hadn't done him wrong. But even Phil was having a hard time getting to Kuklinski because at the time Kuklinski had changed his MO around, he was laundering money abroad, he was in and out of the country and that went by for a whole year. Well, they were putting pressure on Phil to keep trying, keep trying. So he kept insisting to Kuklinski that this dude can get you whatever you want. Plus he needs a few things. He needs some arms, some silencers, some guns and he can get you the cyanide.
Speaker 2:Well, this went on and on. Kuklinski was basically him hauling around. I guess the heat in his head about the detective going to his home had died down in his mind. But, kane, he saw the way that that pissed Kuklinski off. So he went back to Kuklinski's house when he wasn't home and he questioned his wife. Well, they told Kuklinski's wife that they were investigating him on some murders and that was the last straw for Kuklinski. He was furious and he bit on that bait that Phil Simone was telling him that he knew a guy that he could get the cyanide from. So they ended up setting up a meeting between Kuklinski and Dominique the undercover. Now it's kind of ironic that Kane was the man who Kuklinski was wanting the Psyknight to kill and then the undercover, dominique, the guy that he was trying to get the Psyknight from, was Kane's partner, which everybody was in on this except for Kuklinski. Every time they had a meeting or they knew where Kuklinski was going to be at they tried to put an undercover on him to tail him. But Kuklinski was too slick man, they couldn't keep on his tail. So ultimately they got the okay to put taps on Kuklinski and Kuklinski's family's phones.
Speaker 2:Well, kuklinski had made a phone call to Phil Simone. He said that he could get him the guns and the silencers he needed. Basically, what this was was a good faith meeting. He was going to get the guns and the silencers for Phil and Phil was going to hook him up with a Dominique character and get the cyanide so Kuklinski could kill Kane. Well, richard straight up said that he was just doing this to be able to get the cyanide. He said that he had had weird feelings about Phil. That's why he had distanced himself a little bit from him and he was going to use another guy that he didn't like, set the meeting up and he was just going to off them both.
Speaker 2:Kuklinski had set that meeting up so fast obviously because it was a ruse just to get Phil and this other guy together so he could kill him. But being that everybody was either police or working with police except for Kuklinski on this deal, they didn't have time to set up the surveillance that they needed and everything. So they kind of brushed this deal under the rug. Kuklinski had made a phone call to the Dominique character to set up just a cyanide deal. Called to the Dominique character to set up just a cyanide deal and he told him that he knew where he could get some arms that Dominique had told Kuklinski that he was looking for. Well, dominique was prying Kuklinski about what he needed the cyanide for.
Speaker 2:Kuklinski fell right into the trap. So on the recorded phone call Kuklinski had admitted that he had killed several people with the cyanide that he wanted to use it to kill Cain with. So Dominique and Simone set up this another good faith deal. They told Richard that he could get the cyanide, but first he wanted them to set up a meeting with a Jewish drug dealer that Phil Simone said that he wanted to get out of the way. The deal was that him and Phil Simone would set up a meeting with the Jewish drug dealer. They would meet him, kuklinski would make the deal with the cocaine and then they would go off to a little diner shop and they would kill the Jewish drug dealer with the cyanide sandwich and then they would take the money and the dope. The deal ultimately got set up for December 17, 1986.
Speaker 2:Of course everybody was law enforcement except for Kuklinski. So when Kuklinski and the fake Jewish drug dealer met up, kuklinski felt something wasn't right. So he told the drug dealer and Phil Simone that the cocaine was in his warehouse to go on and follow him over there to get it. Basically, he was just trying to get away from me at this point. While they were leaving the meeting, kuklinski said that he fed the sandwich that he had made up with the fake cyanide from the FBI to a dog. When nothing happened to the dog, he knew he was fucked. From the FBI to a dog when nothing happened to the dog, he knew he was fucked.
Speaker 2:So Kuklinski drove home, where they were already surveilling his home and they were waiting everywhere for him to bust him. He pulls up to his house where he picked up his wife, barbara, to take her to the hospital for something that was ailing her, and that's where they ultimately busted him at. They handcuffed Barber because they found a .22 pistol under the seat and it pissed Kuklinski off so bad that it took eight cops to handcuff him. They searched his home. They didn't find anything. His family didn't have a clue again what was going on. He was charged with five counts of murder, six weapons violations and dozens of robbery and attempted robbery. They charged Barbara with the pistol the weapons violation as well that was found underneath the seat. Kuklinski paced his cell, screaming like a crazy man, saying he was going to kill everybody. He seemed to be only worried about his family and not himself. He ultimately made a plea deal for two 60-year sentences to run concurrently and all charges were dropped on Barbara. They found large amounts of cash in various bank accounts in various countries and ultimately at trial. Everybody that had been an associate of him that wasn't dead betrayed him and testified against him. He had reportedly turned down all kinds of interviews, like one with Geraldo Rivera, but ultimately he did the Iceman tapes with HBO, where his wife was paid very generously for that, and Barbara divorced Kuklinski in 1993. And after that she still visited him about once a
Speaker 2:year. After about 18 years in prison, kuklinski got what they call Kawasaki disease, you know, like the motorcycle, except this is a disease of the blood vessels. And ironically, he told the doctors when he was in the hospital on the table. He said now if my heart stops through this procedure, man? He told the doctors when he was in the hospital on the table. He said now if my heart stops through this procedure, man? He said you make sure my, you know, you guys get my heart kicking again, don't let me die here. What Kuklinski didn't know is that his wife, barbara, had signed a DNR, which is a do not resuscitate order. Well, when they realized that Kuklinski was dying, they called Barbara to ask her if she wanted to revoke her signature on the DNR, and she declined. So on March 5th 2006, kuklinski passed away at the age of 70 years old.
Speaker 1:Ultimately in the interviews he confessed over 200 murders and he had this to say about the end I am probably the loneliest person in the world because I have nothing I care for and I can't make any friends to have any kind of a relationship, or so I've lost everything. I've lost everything I ever cared, lost everything I ever cared for, everything I ever wanted. It's down the toilet. Since there is no love in my life, I must have something to replace it. So I replace it with hate, constant hate, constantly reminded of too hate. And what's that do for you Keeps my left foot going in front of my right foot, keeps me moving. Without it, I would probably just plop down someplace and have no reason to continue. Is that all you've got left is hate? That's all I've got left.
Speaker 2:It's time for me to die. There's been a lot of controversy in people that don't think, richard.
Speaker 2:Kuklinski committed most of the crimes that he admitted to. Klinsky committed most of the crimes that he admitted to. Amongst those things, he admitted to being the one that killed Johnny Favaro, the guy that ran over John Gotti's son on a bicycle. He also admitted to being part of the killing crew that killed Paul Castellano for John Gotti. If you get a chance, go watch the Iceman interviews on HBO, because, man, I watched these and just listened to this dude and looking at him and hearing the words come out of his mouth. I don't think there's much bullshit in this man. If I had to guess, I'd say he did everything he admitted to and then some that he forgot. That's it for 69 South this week. I appreciate you being here with me, man. I love telling these stories to you, I love investigating it and I hope you enjoy listening to them. Stay tuned with us, because we got that big thing coming up that I've been telling you about. Joey's been hard at it Investigating it. Until then, everybody, have a good day, good evening, whatever.
