69 South
Podcast 69 South is about mystery, true crime, attempting to find the truth in a world full of chaos. We dig deep in to current and past true crime incidents. Reporting what we find to our listeners. We want to become your reliable source for all things relevant, while we live in a society that is truly lost.
69 South
Secrets in the Snow: Karen Read Navigating Deceit and Desire Part 3
What happens when explosive text messages reveal the tangled web of deceit and flirtation in a high-stakes trial? Join us in Podcast 69 South as we peel back the layers of the complex drama involving Karen Read and her entangled relationships with Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe and DOJ ATF agent Brian Higgins. Through these riveting messages, we uncover Karen's desperate search for validation and her struggle to juggle responsibilities with John's family while engaging in flirtatious exchanges with Brian Higgins. We invite you to explore with us the chaos that Brian might have unwittingly walked into and the missing pieces in this unfolding drama that hint at deeper entanglements.
As we sift through the intricate dynamics of trust, suspected infidelity, and emotional vulnerabilities, we examine the moral implications of the choices made by those involved. We'll navigate the blurred lines between friendship and romantic interest, and the challenges of balancing personal desires with relationship expectations. Our discussion will reflect on the complexities of personal relationships and the importance of honesty and communication. Stay tuned for a sneak peek into our next episode, where we'll trace the blue blood family tree of the Massachusetts State Police and the Canton PD, offering insights into Boston's Boys in Blue. Share your thoughts with us on social media and subscribe to keep exploring these fascinating topics together.
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Disclaimer: All defendants are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. All facts are alleged until a conviction!
69 South 69 South 69 South. 69 South 69 South.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone to Podcast 69 South, where we cuss and discuss true crime, cold cases, current events and hot topics, along with our state of society today. This is your trigger warning. Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners, 18 years of age and older. We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering to some listeners. Sit back, relax and enjoy. Welcome back everybody to another episode of 69 South. We hope you had a good time since the last time I'm Chop, and joining me is my beautiful co-host, julie. Today we're diving deep in the explosive messages that surfaced during the trial between Karen Reed and Brian Higgins.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, I have to say when these messages came out I was shocked. It's like peeling back layers of deceit. It's like peeling back layers of deceit. Karen was living with John, yet she was texting Brian Higgins as if everything with her relationship was on the rocks.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I mean, it raises so many questions about her honesty. And I'll tell you what. I'm pretty sure those were screenshots of the messages and I think there's some messages that was missing screenshots of the messages and I think there's some messages that was missing. But she was clearly entertaining the thoughts of another dude while she was maintaining her relationship with John. It's like she was searching for validation, or maybe seeking attention or a way out of her situation.
Speaker 1:And let's not forget that she was helping John raise his niece and nephew, which she didn't want to be in that particular situation. It must have been a lot for her to handle, and it seems like Brian Higgins represented some kind of escape for her a fantasy, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a fantasy that turned into a nightmare. It's unbecoming for a woman who portrays herself as Jezebel. Just be real, Karen. And what about Higgins? He seemed completely oblivious to the chaos he was stepping into.
Speaker 1:We have to get into these juicy text messages. You know, the tea is piping hot and the buzz is boiling over.
Speaker 2:So we're going to get into these text messages between Karen Reed and Brian Higgins. These did just only come out in trial and, like I said, I'm pretty sure there's some missing. But I'm going to be talking the text messages from Brian Higgins and Miss Julie is going to be talking the Karen Reed text messages and you can see for yourself there was clearly some flirtation and some dancing around some shit. So, without further delay, here we go.
Speaker 1:Hey Brian, it's the Weed Whacker.
Speaker 2:Question mark. And then he sent a picture of Smirnoff Ice Screwdrivers.
Speaker 1:Did you try those Smirnoff Screwdrivers? Did you try those Smirnoff screwdrivers? Question mark I stopped at the Hilly for one last night.
Speaker 2:Ha ha, how did you get my digits? Question mark times five. The Melissa and Lito show Ha ha, I thought she was creeping John's phone. Ha ha.
Speaker 1:No way, I was the last person in the greater Canton area who didn't have your number. I think even Carrie has it.
Speaker 2:What Question? Question question mark. I just don't give my personal number out to anyone. How would Carrie have my number? Question mark, question mark.
Speaker 1:Melissa had it. I'd prefer Weed Whacker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the thing about nicknames.
Speaker 1:We were tossing around the idea of a short vacay with the Koran show, wanted to see if you were game.
Speaker 2:You don't have a say, vacation where?
Speaker 1:I know they need to happen organically. I'm the queen of nicknames Was just going to rent a beach house in Fort Lauderdale Something quick and easy. I'm queen of vacays too. Always a good time.
Speaker 2:I'm going to Nashville next month 10-21 for a benefit. One of our guys got shot in the head. You guys should come.
Speaker 1:No, you're not a creep.
Speaker 2:Nope.
Speaker 1:You're kind of a loner which I used to be.
Speaker 2:Not really. I have a ton of buddies but I only let a handful of friends that I am tight with. So you think you got me figured out. Circle of trust in quotation marks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I said loner, not loser. I assume you know a lot of people. You never really can figure anyone out completely. Your dad died when you were young. Question mark.
Speaker 2:He died in March of 2020. I am so not a loser. You won't figure me out, LOL.
Speaker 1:No one is a loser. I just didn't mean loner to imply friendless. I'm sorry that's recent. It wasn't COVID, was it?
Speaker 2:Cancer.
Speaker 1:I know you date girls who don't lock the house behind them and you are private and observant. I'm sorry, what kind.
Speaker 2:Lung, brain, kidney and pelvis. How do you know all these things?
Speaker 1:You're funny, yikes Wow that's rough, jesus, I'm sorry. Don't be sh-. How do you know all these things? You're funny, yikes. Wow, that's rough, jesus, I'm sorry. We chat a lot at the hillside.
Speaker 2:Don't be sorry, life is hard sometimes. I always figure it out who chats.
Speaker 1:Life is hard, but losing people is the hardest, so I'm sorry we chat.
Speaker 2:That's all you got. We chat. Sure, you're from Brockton, spit it out.
Speaker 1:You and I chatted about the girl who kept forgetting the door lock.
Speaker 2:Oh, she's been out of play for like three months now.
Speaker 1:Out of rotation question mark.
Speaker 2:I just got a Saturday night invite.
Speaker 1:Did you say yes?
Speaker 2:Not yet, but did respond.
Speaker 1:What did you say? Question mark, mr Elusive.
Speaker 2:No, I just don't want to intrude on your couples night. Ha ha, I am shy.
Speaker 1:We prefer to hang out with non-couples. Bob Gallery is probably coming too Solo. We'll probably do cards or something at some point. I am inviting you.
Speaker 2:Ha ha.
Speaker 1:John said Brian is being wishy-washy now.
Speaker 2:Ha ha, did you tell him, you texted me?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Thumbs up, you cranky now.
Speaker 1:Ha ha. No, Just stop being so anti-couples. Most couples don't even like each other.
Speaker 2:Name a few.
Speaker 1:Name a few question mark. I don't know All of them. They all want to hang out with single people.
Speaker 2:Hmm, foul ball.
Speaker 1:You stink.
Speaker 2:You suck and you're double trouble. You stink, you suck and you're double trouble.
Speaker 1:You're hot.
Speaker 2:Are you serious or messing with me?
Speaker 1:No, I'm serious.
Speaker 2:Feeling is mutual. Is that bad? How long have you thought that?
Speaker 1:Are you okay driving? You don't want to stay here.
Speaker 2:I'm fine, I have an office at the PD. You didn't answer the question.
Speaker 1:I'd rather you stay here.
Speaker 2:I wish. I think you're messing with me.
Speaker 1:Why do you think that?
Speaker 2:Because this is so out of left field. Where did these feelings come from?
Speaker 1:I just think you're like me.
Speaker 2:Meaning.
Speaker 1:Do you have your own kids? Question mark.
Speaker 2:I have no kids. How am I like you? Um hello.
Speaker 1:Aren't we alike question mark. Question mark.
Speaker 2:I think so. So why did you get my number and reach out to me? Shoot straight with me.
Speaker 1:I told you, I just think we're alike right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree. Now what?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Shouldn't you know?
Speaker 1:Do you like me Question mark? Yes, yes, from Jump.
Speaker 2:When was Jump? First time I saw you?
Speaker 1:Shouldn't you know? Do you like me?
Speaker 2:Yes From Jump. When was Jump First?
Speaker 1:time I saw you. When was that? First time I saw you. When was that?
Speaker 2:Hmm, hillside, for sure. When were you interested?
Speaker 1:I don't know, you're just my type.
Speaker 2:You think you can handle me. I thought you were happy. Question mark.
Speaker 1:How do you know if I'm happy?
Speaker 2:I just assumed.
Speaker 1:Are you a little hard to handle?
Speaker 2:What do you like about me?
Speaker 1:I just feel like you're from my neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ditto.
Speaker 1:And I think you're hot.
Speaker 2:You really think that? I have always thought that about you.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:That you're hot, smart, witty, but didn't think you were interested, Witty Question mark.
Speaker 1:question mark.
Speaker 2:Yeah, meaning quick with a response. Tell me why you got my number and reached out to me.
Speaker 1:Just thought we were the same from the same neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Are you afraid to say what's on your mind?
Speaker 1:No, didn't I Question mark. Question mark.
Speaker 2:I am glad I stopped by. I should have come earlier. Do you really live in Mansfield?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was basically begging you?
Speaker 2:You don't have to beg me Huh Kinda.
Speaker 1:How am I texting?
Speaker 2:Is everyone asleep?
Speaker 1:I'm just wide awake on my phone. Yes, they are.
Speaker 2:I should have stayed, lol. So what now?
Speaker 1:Yes, you should have.
Speaker 2:That would have been distracting. So now, what Now?
Speaker 1:Now what.
Speaker 2:Loaded question what do you want? I asked you. Nope, you initiated this, spit it out.
Speaker 1:Hey, we're single and we don't have kids. We can do whatever we want.
Speaker 2:Don't you have a boyfriend?
Speaker 1:Where are you?
Speaker 2:Canton.
Speaker 1:Where.
Speaker 2:My office at the police department. Why are you going to Mansfield?
Speaker 1:Where's that?
Speaker 2:Canton PD.
Speaker 1:I have a house there from before I reconnected with John.
Speaker 2:Oh, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot.
Speaker 1:I feel like you're not really saying what's on your mind, do you like?
Speaker 2:me, yes, clearly.
Speaker 1:Come over to my house.
Speaker 2:When.
Speaker 1:When works for you.
Speaker 2:Whenever, whenever, when works for you? I asked you first. I think you're messing with me. I'm glad you came over tonight. Me too. Ball's in your court. What do you want, karen? You looked great tonight. I don't know. What do you want? You always do.
Speaker 1:Yeesh, really why. I looked great, You're full of it. I looked great, you're full of it.
Speaker 2:I think you're hot, always have thought that.
Speaker 1:Just have not revealed my thoughts.
Speaker 2:I'm hot for the hillside. Low comps, Knock it off. You're hot period. Are you glad you walked me out?
Speaker 1:Um, yes, are you question mark. Definitely Are you question mark.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Are you going home tonight or tomorrow. Am we kissed right? Then I questioned that like is this a trick question?
Speaker 1:I don't know when I'm going home. I am selling my house. What a trick question.
Speaker 2:Are you moving to Canton? I am following your lead with this.
Speaker 1:I live here, but I have a property in Mansfield. Why my lead? I don't want any responsibility.
Speaker 2:You started this right? Why did you get my number and reach out to me? Still have not told me to me. Still have not told me.
Speaker 1:Sorry should I not have question mark, and I don't know why you just won't answer.
Speaker 2:You're mad at me? Omg, no, not at all. You're being silly.
Speaker 1:I told you, I just think you're like me and I am attracted to you a lot feeling is mutual.
Speaker 2:I just never saw this coming.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:Because I just assumed you were happy with your situation.
Speaker 1:I was, but things have deteriorated.
Speaker 2:Why, how? So? What did Melissa say when you asked for my number?
Speaker 1:It is very, very complicated. He and I dated when we were kids and then his sister died and everything got fucked up.
Speaker 2:He seems to be into you.
Speaker 1:I just told Melissa that I had your number but lost it.
Speaker 2:That's cute. She wasn't suspicious, no.
Speaker 1:Question mark no, she's great.
Speaker 2:Does she know how you like me?
Speaker 1:She's a sweetie. We just agreed that you's great. Does she know how you like me? She's a sweetie. We just agreed that you're great. Yeah, but where is that? I have had all my shit here for a couple of years and my house has been vacant. But I'd like to get closer to the water.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:Are you breaking up or staying together?
Speaker 2:When was that? How did you find out he hooked up? I don't want to complicate your situation.
Speaker 1:We went away for New Year's, the four of us. I put the kids to bed and found him in the lobby of the hotel, all over one of our friends. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:It does matter, did they bang?
Speaker 1:Does that matter?
Speaker 2:Sorry, I was just asking. I was just trying to figure shit out.
Speaker 1:It really doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Okay, I won't ask again.
Speaker 1:I don't care, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Okay, hear you loud and clear, Karen.
Speaker 1:Uh, okay.
Speaker 2:Why are you getting your thing all twisted up over simple questions, thong?
Speaker 1:I'm not, am I?
Speaker 2:You're kind of getting defensive.
Speaker 1:We did kiss earlier. No, no question mark.
Speaker 2:I think you initiated that.
Speaker 1:Yep, do I owe you an apology?
Speaker 2:OMG, no, why are you being sensitive?
Speaker 1:I'm not.
Speaker 2:Kinda.
Speaker 1:Never. What do you want from me?
Speaker 2:What's on the table?
Speaker 1:What do you want ideally?
Speaker 2:The real deal Doesn't exist. I can go to any base, but usually Hanscom and Bedford or down the Cape.
Speaker 1:Which base down the Cape, which branch?
Speaker 2:Army.
Speaker 1:I'm not abnormally sensitive.
Speaker 2:Joint Base Camp Cod. Anyway, I won't be so hard on you.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, you're not. You called me trouble. That makes me sound bad.
Speaker 2:I was just playing with you.
Speaker 1:You weren't, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:Stop being sensitive, please.
Speaker 1:I am not, I don't know. It's an old colonial. It has a lot of bedrooms.
Speaker 2:More than you clearly need. Are you moving to Canton?
Speaker 1:I know Seriously, some rooms I only go into to dust, not anytime soon. I'm there most of the time, but sometimes it's a lot.
Speaker 2:A lot. Why Do you even know what you want or who?
Speaker 1:Because I went from being solo to trying to give attention to kids who aren't mine, and I never wanted kids.
Speaker 2:I thought you were happy in this relationship.
Speaker 1:Everyone is happy at the hillside.
Speaker 2:Oh God, you avoid things.
Speaker 1:It's just a very, very complicated dynamic with the four of us. He isn't cut out for what he's doing and the kids present constant issues.
Speaker 2:I think he believes he is doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:Well, of course he is, but his heart isn't in it. It's only because he was very, very close to his sister.
Speaker 2:I know how you feel. Kinda. I was married when I met her. She had a two-and-a-half-year-old. I went from being single to being a dad. It's hard. I am divorced since 2017 and have no kids.
Speaker 1:I try very hard but they are very spoiled and they're not my family. My parents keep telling me I'd feel differently if they were mine or my own sisters. Then I told you he got drunk and sloppy on New Year's Eve while we were away and that has really affected me.
Speaker 2:What did he actually do?
Speaker 1:I never got married and now somehow I'm arguing with someone about raising kids.
Speaker 2:Why won't you tell me?
Speaker 1:He was a puddle all day and then disappeared. Then I found him all over his friend's sister in the lobby of our hotel and she's gross, which I think may actually be worse. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:Oh God, Did they bang?
Speaker 1:I was with the kids celebrating New Year's without him, which shouldn't be my role. No, I doubt it. He was a mess.
Speaker 2:Hmm, was it the first time with her, or do you think there were others?
Speaker 1:I don't really think there were others. I'm with him all of the time. He never seems to want to go anywhere without me. But honestly, the issues with the kids bother me more than him actually cheating. They're constant and it feels like a lose-lose.
Speaker 2:Hmm, you clearly have a lot of feelings swirling inside you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very complicated. Sorry for the rant.
Speaker 2:You can vent, babe.
Speaker 1:Basically, I just feel like I spread myself too thin, and sometimes it's thankless. You probably felt that way too.
Speaker 2:I did at times it was one, not two, thankfully Want to grab a drink. If you gave me some notice I could have you said you were adaptable. I am, but I have my work truck with me and not my personal.
Speaker 1:Do you get angry when you don't get your way? That sounds like an excuse. I rarely get my way. Are you single?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's out of left field. Wasn't already begging you to come over last Saturday?
Speaker 2:You getting my number from Melissa and reaching out to me.
Speaker 1:And on vacay and probably a few other occasions.
Speaker 2:You did, I really beg.
Speaker 1:I asked at least twice how do people usually reach out to each other? I asked at least twice how?
Speaker 2:do people usually reach out to each other? Why would I have thought you had any interest in me? Usually they do it when they don't live with someone. Maybe, maybe I could go on and on, but I do not want to pump your shit up too much. Thanks for saying that, but low comps at Hillside. You know how to ruin something nice. I frequent other places.
Speaker 1:John has showed me about five times the ring video of me walking you out on Saturday and my voice and my accent are killing me softly.
Speaker 2:Um what, yeah? Question mark. Question mark. Question mark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he has cameras everywhere you cops.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 1:He's like Christ. Are you guys hooking up Question mark? Question mark.
Speaker 2:OMG, I don't need drama dude.
Speaker 1:No, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Seriously.
Speaker 1:I am serious.
Speaker 2:You legit planted one on me.
Speaker 1:I know where the cameras are anyway. Duh, oh my God, bruins.
Speaker 2:So your slick move isn't on there.
Speaker 1:Of course not.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I almost puke emoji.
Speaker 1:I was, it was a peck. Anyway, I kiss Carrie and gay Jeff too. Yeah, weak, lol, funny.
Speaker 2:So now he is jealous of me.
Speaker 1:No, I told you he likes you a lot.
Speaker 2:Which makes this worse.
Speaker 1:You said or did something at the bar last week and he goes. I like Brian more and more.
Speaker 2:I think he's a good dude. I like Brian more and more.
Speaker 1:I think he's a good dude too. Yeah, he is.
Speaker 2:Funny. What's your end game? What do you want from me?
Speaker 1:You will just confuse the shit out of yourself, because I am a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:I've complimented you today too, and kicked my nuts in.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, how.
Speaker 2:If I'd had more notice I could have grabbed a drink somewhere. So I'm all set with that's fine, but I'm not asking you again.
Speaker 1:Well, it was 7 pm and I'm super cool, so right now asking again.
Speaker 2:Coming to your house would have been bad for the both of us. For starters, you wouldn't have wanted me to leave.
Speaker 1:Now equals not. That sounds good.
Speaker 2:That's trouble. Dot, dot, dot, dot dot.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:No, you're sensitive. Nice try. You don't think if I came over for a drink we would have got carried away?
Speaker 1:You said you were adaptable and tons of fun. I took that as an invite for an invite.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm 42. I know what happens when you invite someone over for a drink. What happens when you invite someone over for a drink.
Speaker 2:You're the master at avoidance, so you think it would just give it to you. Give it up.
Speaker 1:I've been a lot in my life. I have a little bit of a car, dm mindset Been through a lot. What am I avoiding?
Speaker 2:I'm not afraid to be direct. Some of my questions.
Speaker 1:Okay, which Ask again? Nope, tricks are for kids.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure we would have hooked up Okay.
Speaker 1:I can't say that. Question Mark.
Speaker 2:Of course you can.
Speaker 1:Did I miss any other questions?
Speaker 2:Probably Are you having a drink right now.
Speaker 1:None of that is true. I am not talking to any other guys and I have had issues with John and things are far from perfect. You just happen to know about him because we all hang out at the same bar. I'm sure you talk to other girls. That's what single people do. I'm not married and neither. Neither are you and neither is John.
Speaker 2:Was that your attempt at a lecture or deductive reasoning? What do you want from me?
Speaker 1:That's just how I think and feel you don't need to approve. I've already answered the last question a couple of times, I think.
Speaker 2:I am not judging you. Never have, never will.
Speaker 1:You shouldn't. I don't know what your private life is about, nor is it my business. My only point is that there's a difference between being married to someone and dating them, and we have no intentions of ever getting married. The point of dating is to not get tied down. If you're not confident, you should be in my mind anyway the first two, but I don't care too much about the other girl.
Speaker 2:Okay, so is he cool with you dating other people?
Speaker 1:And I'm not happy per se, just realistic that there's cracks and it's far from perfect. I doubt it. If he is seeing someone else, I wouldn't want to know either way. He probably feels the same and you probably feel that way about whoever you hook up with. I think that's normal.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You don't agree with me. Do you want to meet up at a bar?
Speaker 2:I wasn't suggesting anytime soon. I know you're with your friend, I meant my house.
Speaker 1:Probably after eight.
Speaker 2:Okay, if you don't want to, that's fine, no pressure.
Speaker 1:I will A drink.
Speaker 2:And then I put a question mark on that comment what do you drink? Are you out now?
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'll drink whiskey if that's what you're having.
Speaker 2:Ha ha, send me a pic of you two. Ha ha, stranger, stranger.
Speaker 1:I was at the hilly all weekend.
Speaker 2:Have not heard from you.
Speaker 1:Phone works both ways.
Speaker 2:Thought you were all set.
Speaker 1:With talking Question mark Nope.
Speaker 2:Hmm, you sure. So that was pretty much the gist of their text conversation until the night in question, and we'll get to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, karen, she was the bold one. He should have known better. Ignoring her advances would have been the right move, especially knowing she was with John. The whole situation feels shady.
Speaker 2:And can you imagine how humiliating it must have been for John, his so-called friend, texting his girlfriend. What a betrayal. I wonder if he ever found out about those messages.
Speaker 1:I mean, this flirtation was ongoing and it seemed to ramp up just weeks before John's death. What's even more intriguing is the timeline Five days before the tragedy, brian Higgins texts Karen and she completely brushes him off until the night at the waterfall when she walks in that night.
Speaker 2:And he texted her Well it's all weird and, like we said there's, these are screenshots that was provided to the court. These weren't messages that were pulled up with a warrant or anything. So I'm pretty sure that there's some shit missing because, like Julie said, five days in between there there was absolutely no communication. It's like she just completely brushed him off. Brian Higgins probably confided in his friend brian albert about those little exchanges and that peck that she gave him at john's house. That must have been a dagger to john's heart, if he had any inkling oh smoochy, smoochy, how disgusting is that.
Speaker 1:And then there were the events at the hillside bar. It's also all so tangled. Did Karen meet Higgins and Albert before she got with John? That evening of the 28th, 29th? If you remember, she did ask John to go meet at the Hillside for drinks before her hot water went lukewarm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, her hot water went lukewarm my ass. I think she was at the bar and I think Brian Higgins and Brian Albert was at the bar too. That was never investigated, really, because they just started the investigation at the hillside where they was all at. If I had to put my money on it, I almost guarantee that they were Just my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I believe that they were at the Hillside Bar prior to going to the waterfall and I don't think that John had any idea that Karen was over at the hillside because she was supposed to be at home waiting on the plumber, Because at 8 o'clock on a Friday night that's when the plumber comes or is on call.
Speaker 2:And it's all really weird If you watch the video. At the waterfall she walks in and Brian Higgins is clearly trying to look at her, get her attention. She completely acts like she doesn't know him at all, like she completely ignores him. So that theory is worth exploring. After Higgins and Albert left the bar, he joined the group at the waterfall, not knowing. John and Karen would then appear happily, but behind the scenes things were unraveling.
Speaker 1:Right. And then there's Karen acting like she didn't even know Higgins at the bar. It's all so calculated, or is it?
Speaker 2:Is it a classic case of deception? But we have to ask was Karen a puppet master in this drama or did she become the victim of circumstance? Much like John Also watching the video at the waterfall, john O'Keefe was being real observant man. You could tell he was looking around and checking everything out. And another weird aspect that I thought was only because I'm Irish and I've been at a bar in situations like this to. Brian Higgins and Brian Albert were doing what I like to call peacocking. They were like showing their tail feathers. They were play fighting and they kept looking over at John and Karen to see if they was looking. It's awful strange man, because they were drunk and they were hyped up. And right before they left the bar you can see Brian Higgins motioned into John O'Keefe come outside. You know, hey, come outside. And I'm not sure if that was like hey, come outside so we can talk, come outside so I can tell you something. It's real interesting. I would die and kill just to hear that conversation you something?
Speaker 1:It's real interesting. I would die and kill just to hear that conversation. Yeah, and I didn't think that you know there was any animosity between Higgins and John, because whenever John walked into the bar, you clearly see him greeting Higgins and they exchange a hug and pats on the back.
Speaker 2:But it was awful funny. You got to go watch the video. It's very telling.
Speaker 1:We will post the waterfall video on our podcast 69 South Facebook page. Hopefully you guys will all go follow and like and share.
Speaker 2:We'd love to know your opinion after you watch this video. Now, before we get off and let you guys go on this episode, I would like to get into talking about the gruesome autopsy and the weird injuries that they say happened from a vehicle crash.
Speaker 1:It's a chilling topic. The autopsy revealed blunt force trauma to the head, specifically a three centimeter gash. And that's just the start. He also suffered from hypothermia, two black eyes, a broken nose and a dislocated jaw.
Speaker 2:Also there were some weird markings on his arms that we will also post these pictures. They definitely look like dog scratches and dog bites because some of them are parallel. They even had a specialist, an expert, testify that they were definitely some kind of a dog bite. I guess they could tell, just like I said, the way they were parallel and two black eyes and a broken jaw. I mean to me that sounds like a straight up ass whooping man. That does not sound like somebody ran into you with a car. It's hard to wrap your head around how all that happened with a car moving at a top speed in reverse at just 24 miles an hour.
Speaker 1:That doesn't add up at all. When Karen Reed was arrested three days after the incident, it felt like the case was already wrapped up.
Speaker 2:She faced charges of manslaughter, negligent motor vehicle, homicide and leaving the scene of an accident resulting in death, and yet she pleaded not guilty, claiming she would fight the charges. I just cannot help but think there were things the investigators didn't fully explore. It's almost as if they had an open and shut case in mind.
Speaker 1:It's concerning, especially considering Karen's inconsistent memory of events. When she initially left to look for John, she drove to the waterfall, which we know from video surveillance, and then left and headed toward Jen McCabe's house.
Speaker 2:That brings us to a puzzling point. How did Carrie Roberts show up at Jen McCabe's house at the same time as Karen? Jen didn't even have Carrie's number to coordinate.
Speaker 1:Well, jen drives Karen's car back to John's house while Carrie follows, but they didn't even seem to notice that the car was missing a hotel light housing until later, and it was just described as quote-unquote cracked. You'd think in such a chaotic situation the state of the car would be the last thing on their minds.
Speaker 2:It's baffling that instead of heading straight to 34 Fairview, they drove all the way back to 1 Meadow Avenue. It raises so many questions about their priorities, their decision making. At that night. It seems like they were wasting time for some reason.
Speaker 1:To me, Exactly it does, and we need to consider what really happened that night and how these events unfolded. Were they fully aware of the gravity of the situation or were they in a state of confusion and panic?
Speaker 2:We'll explore these questions and more in our next episode. As always, we would love to hear your thoughts. What do you think about Karen's actions and the timeline of events?
Speaker 1:So join us next time as we unpack the investigation and examine the moral implications of the choices made by those involved. We want to hear your thoughts too.
Speaker 2:Don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review and share your opinions on social media. Together, we can navigate these complex issues.
Speaker 1:See you in the next episode where we uncover the blue blood family tree of the Massachusetts State Police and the Canton PD of the Boston's Boys in Blue.
Speaker 2:Until then, have a good day, good evening whatever, we'll see you next time.
