69 South
Podcast 69 South is about mystery, true crime, attempting to find the truth in a world full of chaos. We dig deep in to current and past true crime incidents. Reporting what we find to our listeners. We want to become your reliable source for all things relevant, while we live in a society that is truly lost.
69 South
Brian and Sonia Stafford Probable Cause Affidavit: Justice for the Forgotten Children Part 3
Unravel the unsettling realities of the Brian and Sonia Stafford case as we shine a light on the profound manipulation and abuse that marked the lives of their victims. Join me and my co-host, Julia, on this harrowing journey through the probable cause affidavit, revealing chilling systems of control, including threats to force children into lying to the Department of Child Services. We recount the grim stories of Victims 6, 7, and 8, exposing the brutal punishments and systemic neglect they endured, and the devastating emotional toll it took on their lives.
Listen to the heart-wrenching narratives of the Stafford household from those who lived it. Victim 8 recounts a stark transformation from initial promise to a life of relentless punishment and control, while Victim 7's battle to report the abuse was met with systemic failure, leading to his expulsion. In a disturbing family dynamic, testimonies from an older sibling, M, and in-laws WK and JK, paint a vivid picture of life under the Staffords, likened to slavery. These accounts highlight the oppressive conditions and manipulation that defined their existence.
As the layers of abuse are peeled back, we hear of the distressing circumstances surrounding Cody's suicide and the inappropriate interactions involving a foreign exchange student. The stark testimonies expose a chilling environment where children were subjected to an adult's manipulative control, yearning for freedom and eventually finding solace with a new adoptive mother. This episode stands as a solemn call for justice, offering insight into a troubling narrative while hoping for healing for those affected. Join us as we continue to unravel this complex case, with anticipation for more revelations in our upcoming episode.
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Disclaimer: All defendants are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. All facts are alleged until a conviction!
Welcome everyone to podcast 69 south, where we discuss and discuss true crime, cold cases, current events and hot topics, along with our state of society today. This is your trigger warning. Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners, 18 years of age and older. We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering to some listeners. Sit back, relax and enjoy. Hello everybody, Welcome back to 69 South. We hope you had a good time since the last time. We are covering the probable cause affidavit for the Brian and Sonia Stafford case. We're going to jump right back into it because, to be honest with you, me and my beautiful co-host, Julia, which she is right- here Hello.
Speaker 1:We're not really enjoying reading this, but we need to get the information out there. We have had some of the family members of the victims reach out to us and say that this is really helping them explain what has happened to their family members, and that's all I'm going to say about that right now. But let's just jump right back into it.
Speaker 2:And here we go. And so did victim one disclose ever going to Sonia to talk about what had happened with Brian.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And was her disclosure pretty consistent with what victim five had disclosed about going to Sonia and Sonia not believing her?
Speaker 1:Yes, it was.
Speaker 2:Did she also disclose kind of the family meeting about what had happened with Brian?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:And from her disclosure, did she say that this conversation happened before or after the last group of kids was adopted?
Speaker 1:She said it was after.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did you learn throughout her disclosure and through the investigation that victim one was eventually kicked out of the Stafford house?
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:And this is probably going to be a theme that is consistent with the other kids, but did that seem consistent with? If other kids got to a certain point and don't get with Sonia's program, she would kick them out.
Speaker 1:Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:What ended up happening to victim one, and where did she go?
Speaker 1:She said she had went to Tennessee and stayed with Sonia's mother.
Speaker 2:And did victim one also talk about DCS coming to the farm?
Speaker 1:Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:And did she talk about whether she was also told to lie to DCS?
Speaker 1:Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:Did she in her interview talk about whether DCS was out there more than one time?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And did she also disclose that Sonia made threats to her to lie to DCS?
Speaker 1:Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:And were those threats consistent with that of the other girls?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were all very consistent.
Speaker 2:The next child that was interviewed was that Victim 10?.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was.
Speaker 2:And was he also 19 at the time that he was interviewed?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and Victim 10 was one of the kids that came from the first group from Indiana in 2011,. Correct?
Speaker 1:Yes, he was.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so did victim 10 disclose things about living with the staffers that were fairly consistent with others' interviews up to this point. Yes, he did disclose things about sentences and the button box that they had to keep track of, their points and their chore charts and what we've already discussed.
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:Did Victim 10 talk about what the highest number of sentences was that he had to complete?
Speaker 1:He did. He said the highest amount that he ever had to complete was 25,000.
Speaker 2:And did he also talk about how, if sentences weren't completed, that food would be withheld?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Did he kind of fill in some of the gaps or at least explain that Sonia gave them the option to do extra work to reduce their sentences?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:And was Victim 10, one of the kids that had mentioned that eventually it became impossible for them to empty their button box.
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Okay, did Victim 10 disclose any sort of physical abuse that had happened at the hands of Sonia?
Speaker 1:He did. He talked about spankings and then he talked about Sonia using the paddles on them.
Speaker 2:And did victim 10 actually disclose in his interview that he was one of that? Hadn't made one, or maybe all of the paddles.
Speaker 1:He, just he did. He disclosed during his interview that he was tasked with making the paddles as part of a school project.
Speaker 2:And so this would have been a school project that Sonia assigned to him. That's correct. Did he talk about an incident at the 4-H party where Sonia basically bashed his head into the ground after an argument?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and what did he disclose about that?
Speaker 1:So they were at a 4-H event or a party and they had different types of desserts and stuff. So victim 10 had said that he and victim 11 had asked Sonia if it would be okay if they took two. They wanted to try two different desserts. He asked Sonia if it would be okay if they took smaller portions, kind of to an equivalent of one. Victim 10 said that Sonia had initially told them that was fine, that they could try the two different desserts.
Speaker 1:Victim 10 then talked about how he got the first sampling. Ate it. He said they didn't want to touch so he ate. The wording's kind of messed up in the PCA here, but they ate the first one. And then they went back to get the second one. He said that Sonia accused them of taking more than what they were supposed to have and Victim 10 said he tried to explain to them.
Speaker 1:You know, no, this is just a second one that you said was okay that we have. Sonia accused him of lying and said that wasn't. You know that wasn't the case. So then when they went to try to go back inside and victim 10 made a commitment to victim 11 about telling him what was happening. Commitment to victim 11 about telling him what was happening. Victim 10 also disclosed during this time that he saw he thought he saw sonia smack victim 11 in the face. Victim 10 said he overheard or that sonia overheard him telling victim 11 that she needed to say something else about the smacking. She chased after victim 10, took him into the laundry room where he was thrown down to the ground and started bashing his head off of the ground.
Speaker 2:And from your disclosure did you get the impression that Sonia was on top of him and banging his head into the ground?
Speaker 1:I did. He talked about how she hit his head off the ground several times and he even disclosed that he blacked out at one point?
Speaker 2:And was the victim 11 present for all of this?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Does he in his disclosure? Did he talk about how old he was when that happened?
Speaker 1:Yes, I believe 13 or 14.
Speaker 2:And after he had lost consciousness, did anything else happen.
Speaker 1:After that he was sent to get spankings from Brian. He disclosed that he went to get his spankings from Brian, that she sat and watched and laughed about it.
Speaker 2:Did he also disclose that Brian was fairly reluctant to do it and made some comment along the lines of he can barely even stand up?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:And Sonia still insisted that it happened and sat there and laughed.
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:Did he also talk about an incident where there was a family friend that was visiting the Staffords and he and victim eight had kind of gotten, I guess, crossways with Sonia?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What did he disclose? That happened.
Speaker 1:He said that Sonia had told his friends that they were in trouble for something. Victim 10 and Victim 8 essentially said they called her out on it because that wasn't the fact of why they were in trouble. So they were essentially punished for that.
Speaker 2:Was there an incident where she had made them, him and victim eight, lean into a very odd and uncomfortable position against a table, that she kind of forced them backwards?
Speaker 1:Yes, he kind of described it as his back was unnaturally kind of bending backwards against the table and described it as being very painful.
Speaker 2:And was victim eight there for that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did victim 10 describe victim eight crying when that was happening?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Okay, did victim 10 also talk about an incident where he was helping clean a bathroom at the house and he was trying to have fun with his sisters he did.
Speaker 1:She got very angry with him, told him that he wasn't essentially to have fun.
Speaker 2:Victim 10 said that he tries to have fun while he is doing his chores, and Sonia was upset about that.
Speaker 1:She did. Victim 10 disclosed that she had threw him up against the bathroom door and she had made a comment to him which he didn't respond to, that she was unhappy that he didn't respond and he described her taking her forearm and thrusting it into his neck.
Speaker 2:And did he say that hurt when she had done that?
Speaker 1:Yes, he described it as very painful.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did he give some estimation of how old he was?
Speaker 1:He said he was around 13.
Speaker 2:Did he disclose that one of the things Sonia had said during this incident was basically she was going to decide when or if they had fun?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did victim 10 talk about his physical size when he was living at the Stafford house in comparison to kind of how he was during this interview?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:What was his size when he was 16 years old, living at the Stafford home?
Speaker 1:He said he was around 90 pounds when he was 16.
Speaker 2:Did he talk about any of the other kids when he was living there, what their sizes were?
Speaker 1:He did. He described all of the kids there that were living there at the time were very underweight.
Speaker 2:Did victim 10 also talk about any physical abuse that he witnessed Sonia perpetrate on other kids?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:What did he see?
Speaker 1:He talked about an incident with victim three that he saw her shaking her. He described Sonia picking victim three up by the shirt and then also did the same thing that she did to him Took her forearm and was kind of thrusting it and shoving it into her throat.
Speaker 2:Did you get the impression from his disclosure that was sort of one of Sonia's preferred methods of control?
Speaker 1:of the kids. Yes, yes, sorry.
Speaker 2:Did he also talk about the incident with victim one in the pole barn that she had disclosed at being her last day at the property?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And was his version of what he saw fairly consistent with victim one's disclosure.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was.
Speaker 2:Did victim 10 talk about being aware of the sexual abuse that Brian was committing on the girls?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And what did he disclose that he was aware of?
Speaker 1:He disclosed that there were some conversations with victim two. Victim two had come up to him and victim eight and had inquired if it was normal if creamy stuff came out of his private areas. They kind of explored that a little bit with her and that's when she disclosed to them. That's what happened with Brian.
Speaker 2:Did he also talk about being aware that Brian had been exposing himself to the girls? He did talk about being aware that Brian had been exposing himself to the girls he did and was victim 10. Also aware that her sister victim 11 was pregnant with Brian's baby.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did he talk about victim 11 disclosing to him that she saw when they were younger? Brian, going through the girls is dirty underwear and spelling it.
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:And did Victim 10 talk about all of the minor children when they were being fostered by the Staffords?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Did he talk about things changing when the minor children were living with them?
Speaker 1:He did. He described it as things had kind of calmed down. He kind of described it as he thinks it had to do with DCS, because DCS was coming around more when the minor children were there, because they were currently being fostered.
Speaker 2:So after victim 10 was interviewed, did you also interview victim 8?
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:For the court's purposes and for our record, can you again just remind us what group of kids was victim 8, adopted with?
Speaker 1:Victim 8 had come with the first group from Florida.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so that would have been in 2013 that he was adopted. Is that correct?
Speaker 1:That is correct.
Speaker 2:Okay, and how old was Victim 8 when you interviewed him?
Speaker 1:Victim 8 was 17 when I interviewed him.
Speaker 2:And so was it your understanding that the Staffords, when they adopted these kids, that they basically were responsible for them until they turned 18?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Where was Victimate living when you interviewed with him?
Speaker 1:When I interviewed him, he was up in Indiana visiting with Victim 6. Prior to coming up for a visit, he had been staying in Florida with his brother, Victim 7.
Speaker 2:And did you learn during your interview with Victim 8 and subsequently with Victim 7 when you spoke with him, that Victim 8 was no longer in Brian and Sonia's care and had not been for some time?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did, he had talked about when they first were at the Staffords house. They didn't have any chores. They were allowed to play, they could eat anything they wanted.
Speaker 2:And after some point they were adopted. Did victim eight talk about that changing? He did. He said that changed point they were adopted.
Speaker 1:Did Victimate talk about that changing. He did. He said that changed after they were formally adopted.
Speaker 2:Did you get the impression from Victimate that it seemed almost like a bait and switch had happened when the kids were visiting versus when they were adopted?
Speaker 1:Yes, he described it as you know. Things seemed okay, things were normal while they were visiting, and then it completely changed once they were formally adopted.
Speaker 2:And then after they were adopted, did he also talk about kind of what daily life looked like when he was living at the Stafford's property?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:And was his disclosure and interview with you fairly consistent with what all the other kids had said up to this point?
Speaker 1:Yes, it was.
Speaker 2:What were some of the things that had stood out to you that victim A had mentioned? You know that were very consistent, in line with what the other children had said.
Speaker 1:He had talked about the sentences. He had talked about being able to work things off by getting wax and other types of chores and things. He talked about the alarms being on the doors and other types of chores and things. He talked about the alarms being on the doors. He did also disclose in his interview that the highest amount of sentences he had to write was 100,000. And he talked about consequences, different punishments.
Speaker 2:And so some of the consequences did that include food being withheld.
Speaker 1:Yes, it did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so was that a result of if they were like behind on school or behind in their chores as well.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:If they were not caught up on school or chores, was there something that they would have to eat or not get to eat at all?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so would it be a situation where they didn't have food, or was there specific items that they were required to eat if they were behind?
Speaker 1:He talked about specific items they were allowed to eat when they were behind. He talked about the ravioli and sardines and stuff and then, yeah, he talked about those things.
Speaker 2:Okay, did victim eight ever talk about going without food?
Speaker 1:He did. He didn't say it was consistently for days. He did mention in his interview that there was a three-day stretch, that each day he had only one can of sardines.
Speaker 2:And did victim eight ever tell you about the time that he got in trouble for sneaking out of his room through the window to get food because he was so hungry?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Did victim eight tell you about his bedtime? That was fairly consistent when he lived with them.
Speaker 1:He had said that he had to be in bed at 6 pm every night.
Speaker 2:Did victim 8 talk about any other sort of unusual punishments that he had received when living with the Staffords?
Speaker 1:He did. He had mentioned that there was one incident that he would have to lay in the hallway of the house during the wintertime and he had no blankets and he had to lay there in his underwear. He had disclosed that he had to do this for about two months.
Speaker 2:And did he also talk consistently, like other kids did, about the button box and what those buttons would mean?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Did he say something to the effect of getting additional buttons if they were late for their scheduled stuff that Sonia had given them?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:Did he make the comment that they were always late because they had so many chores to get done in time? They had to do them before school.
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Did Sonia ever explain to him in any conversation or anything he overheard about, why she wouldn't let other kids eat food or why they weren't allowed to eat the same food as her?
Speaker 1:He said that she made the comment that she didn't like wasting money on them.
Speaker 2:Did Victimate disclose any sort of physical abuse that happened at the hands of Sonia with him?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What did he talk about?
Speaker 1:He talked about different instances where she would lift him up in the air. He talked about sometimes she had slammed him down on the table. There was one incident that they was around 14 or 15 and he got injuries to his nose. His nose was bleeding because she was punching him in the face. And then there was other times she would essentially make his whole body bruised from beatings that she would do on him.
Speaker 2:Did victim A ever talk about any sort of physical abuse he saw Sonia inflict on his siblings?
Speaker 1:He did. He talked about one incident with victim four where she had picked her up and slammed her against the door and saw her slapping her.
Speaker 2:Did victim A ever run away from the Stafford's house?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:Where did he end up going?
Speaker 1:He went to a nearby farm which was not far from the Stafford home. I think they were kind of family friends so he ran, ran away and stayed there.
Speaker 2:And did we also learn that Victim 8 eventually left the Stafford's care, as you had mentioned earlier, sort of permanently, and gone to live with victim seven?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And where did he go to reside with victim seven?
Speaker 1:He initially went to Georgia.
Speaker 2:Who provided him the plane ticket to go there.
Speaker 1:Sonia.
Speaker 2:Did victim eight talk about being aware of anything that was happening with Brian and the sexual abuse that the girls have disclosed?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:What did he know?
Speaker 1:He talked about the girls telling him about Brian exposing himself.
Speaker 2:And did he tell you about being present for the family meeting where Brian had admitted to molesting the girls?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Was he aware of anything that was going on with Victim 11 and Brian in your interview? Did that ever come up?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And what was he aware of?
Speaker 1:He at some point had learned that Brian and victim 11 were in a relationship.
Speaker 2:And what was his impression of victim 11 when she was living at the house as a child, before the relationship with Brian after this was exposed?
Speaker 1:He kind of said victim 11 was his favorite. She got treated differently than the other kids, she would have extra privileges, she would get different foods and things like that. Some of the kids even disclosed or kind of described victim 11 as the golden child.
Speaker 2:And so victim eight saying that victim 11 was sort of treated differently. Does that become consistent later on in some of the other interviews that the other kids had disclosed?
Speaker 1:Yes, it did.
Speaker 2:Okay, did victim eight also talk about DCS coming to the house and being instructed not to tell the truth?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And was that consistent with what the other kids had disclosed?
Speaker 1:Yes, it was.
Speaker 2:And was that instruction not to tell DCS what was going on from Sonia?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So after victim eight was interviewed, did you also interview victim six?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:And again, sort of orienting the court what is the group of kids that victim? Six came from.
Speaker 1:Victim six was also in the first group from Florida.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that would have been in 2013 that she had been adopted with victim seven, five and eight, correct?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and how old was she when she was interviewed?
Speaker 1:She was 22 years old when she was interviewed.
Speaker 2:And you had mentioned that victim eight was in Indiana visiting Was he with victim six when he did this interview. How old was she when she was adopted, if you recall.
Speaker 1:She was 11.
Speaker 2:With her being 11,. Did she remember what it was like when she was first on the Stafford farm versus how things are now?
Speaker 1:Yes, her initial thoughts were that things were great. She thought it was going to be a good fit, and then things changed.
Speaker 2:And was that consistent with Victim 8's interview that things were very good at the beginning and then changed eventually? Yes, it was and then changed eventually? Yes, it was. Did she also describe living with the Staffords in a way that was consistent with other kids that had been interviewed, specifically that the kids didn't really ever get a chance to be kids or play or do anything other than work?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. Did she also talk about food being a consequence consistent with how other kids had disclosed?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:Did she make the comment that Sonia was basically not like a parent, that there wasn't any bonding that had happened?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:And did she also talk about the button box and the sentences and the alarms on the bedroom doors?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:Was there any details about the alarms being on the bedroom doors and anything that was kind of given to them in the rooms that stood out to you?
Speaker 1:There was. She had talked about in her interview that they weren't allowed to leave their bedrooms, which was very consistent with all of the other kids that had been interviewed. She had said that they were given a container to essentially use the restroom in if they had to, since they weren't allowed to leave the room.
Speaker 2:Did victim six ever see anything physical that Sonia had done to her siblings?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:And what did she disclose to you?
Speaker 1:She talked about an incident that involved victim one, where Sonia had picked her up, threw her in the shower. I don't believe she knew what the circumstances were behind it, but said when she threw her in the shower I don't believe she knew what the circumstances were behind it, but said when she threw her in there that the shower curtain had fell off on top of victim one.
Speaker 2:Did she talk about an incident involving donuts with some of her siblings?
Speaker 1:She did, I believe. In her disclosure she talked about how they were some donuts that they were going to have as kind of a reward. She talked about one of the girls crying and wanting to get her donut and Sonia got upset. She said that Sonia took all of the donuts and smashed them on the floor and then made the child eat them off of the floor.
Speaker 2:Did victim six talk about Sonia sort of incentivizing snitching in the process of kind of her scheme that she had?
Speaker 1:Yes, that was consistent with all the others as well, that if they would tell on the other children on the farm they would get rewarded for it.
Speaker 2:Did victim six disclose anything about anything that happened with Brian?
Speaker 1:No, she did not.
Speaker 2:Did she talk about anything that happened with him in terms of exposing himself?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, did she give you some idea of what she remembered happening?
Speaker 1:She talked about how he would come out of the woods after using the restroom and his private parts just still hanging out.
Speaker 2:And so victim six was not a hands-on victim at this stage. She didn't disclose anything with Brian actually hands on molesting her. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1:That is correct, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. Did she talk about her last day on the farm and something that had happened with Sonia?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:What did she tell you about her last day?
Speaker 1:She had talked about they were running behind. She had talked about she was working with Brian so they were leaving to go to work and they were running late. So she had asked Sonia if she could have one of the girls I think put one of the dogs away or put one of the dogs up. Sonia got upset about it. She said at one point Sonia grabbed her by the hair and drug her out of the truck and threw her on the ground. Sonia said that she told Brian to leave, that Victim 6 wasn't going to be coming with them.
Speaker 2:And did you get the impression that Sonia was angry with Victim 6 because she had not done specifically what Sonia instructed her to do?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did Victim 6 end up getting fired by Brian in a way that was consistent with what Sonia wanted? Yes, that was consistent with what Sonia wanted.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And we haven't really talked about this, but Sonia did not leave the home to work at any point, did she?
Speaker 1:No, she did not.
Speaker 2:Brian was the sole provider. Is that correct? That is correct. Okay, and we'll talk more about that, probably through Mr Bays' testimony. Did Victim 6 talk about Victim 8?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What did she say about how Victim 8 was treated when they were living with the Staffords?
Speaker 1:She talked about Victim 8 being treated poorly. She describes Victim 8 as being a drug baby. She said that not necessarily had mental disabilities but was a slower result of that being born with the drugs in her mom's system. So Sonia treated him much more harshly than the other kids because of that, which also kind of lines up with the earlier talk about the biological son, cody, who had mental disabilities and that he was treated very poorly as well.
Speaker 2:And throughout the rest of your investigation, did you interview other people that were associated with the Stafford family, that were kind of on the outside looking in?
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:And did those people that we'll talk about later? But did they seem to have the same impression that Sonia's treatment of her bodilical son, cody, mirrors sort of how she would treat victim eight? Yes she would treat victim eight. Yes, did victim six make a comment about how Brian and Sonia benefited from adopting the kids? That sort of summarizes our case yes. What was the comment?
Speaker 1:She said the place is what it is because of the kids, and sometimes she thinks that they were just adopted to get work out of them.
Speaker 2:After you interviewed victim six, did you also interview victim seven?
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:And he was one of the kids that came from the first Florida group in 2013, correct?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:How old was he when you interviewed him?
Speaker 1:He was 24.
Speaker 2:And I believe you said earlier that he was about 13 when he was adopted, correct?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And did victim seven also describe things that were consistent with all of the other kids about how life with the Staffords was.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did he talk about what it was like when he was first visiting with the Staffords in a way that was consistent with victim six and victim eight?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did he specifically talk about the Indiana kids, the group that was there before him, being present when he and his siblings from Florida were visiting prior to their adoption? Yes kids being victim 10, 11, and 1, and 3,. They told him that they were supposed to lie about all the punishments they were receiving until the Florida group was adopted.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so did he kind of give you the same impression that victim 8 and 6 has given you, that it was like a bait and switch until the Florida group was adopted.
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Did they obviously eventually learn about the punishments that the Staffords had for them?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And did Victim 7 give you the impression that they had happened fairly quickly after they were adopted?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and what sort of punishments did he describe that stood out to you.
Speaker 1:He talked about getting whippings or the wax. He talked about writing sentences. He had to chop wood as one of his punishments, and then he described being, or described one as being, put in solitary confinement.
Speaker 2:And what did he mean by solitary confinement?
Speaker 1:He would describe that he would get sent to bed at 7 pm. He would get a bottle of water or, I'm sorry, a water bottle and a half a peanut butter sandwich.
Speaker 2:And what was his impression of what the water bottle was supposed to be used for?
Speaker 1:For him to use the restroom in.
Speaker 2:Okay, did he refer to it as a piss bottle as well?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did he talk about being locked in the room with an alarm on the door and a baby camera in the room with him?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:Was there anything that the Staffords eventually did to further try to limit Victim 7's ability to leave his room?
Speaker 1:They did. They put screws on the outside window or, I'm sorry, from the bedroom window, so he wasn't able to open the window.
Speaker 2:And how did he know that he would remove them during the, so he wasn't able to open the window. And how did he know that?
Speaker 1:He would remove them during the daytime so that he was able to get out.
Speaker 2:Did you get the impression during his interview that he was fairly noncompliant with the punishments Sonia had for him?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And if he didn't accept Sonia's punishments or go along with what she wanted him to do, what would she do instead?
Speaker 1:She would take it out on the others.
Speaker 2:And so what did he witness Sonia doing to other kids when he lived there?
Speaker 1:He saw some of the kids getting wax. He would see different kinds of punishment to the kids. He talked about one incident with victim one that he saw her getting drugged by the hair.
Speaker 2:Did he disclose things that were all fairly consistent with what the other kids had said and what they had witnessed?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so did he also learn about the incidents with Brian that were going on the sexual abuse.
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:And what did he learn?
Speaker 1:The girls had disclosed that they had seen Brian exposing himself. Okay, did he learn. The girls had disclosed that they had seen Brian exposing himself.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did victim seven end up making a report to an adult outside of the house about what was going on with Sonia and Brian.
Speaker 1:He did. He had made a report to his principal at the boarding school that he was at.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did DCS come out to the house?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And what ended up happening when they came out.
Speaker 1:They essentially did nothing. The kids lied about the accusations and what the allegations were.
Speaker 2:So you had mentioned that one of the times that victim seven had made a report was to his principal at boarding school. Did victim seven end up getting kicked out of the Stafford home?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:And how old was he when he got kicked out?
Speaker 1:He was just 14.
Speaker 2:And so did you get the impression throughout your investigation through Victim 7's interview that it was pretty normal for the kids to be kicked out when they reached a certain age.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And was it kind of referred to as aging out of the farm?
Speaker 1:Yes, it was.
Speaker 2:Did he tell you what the months were like leading up to him being kicked out of the farm, what his treatment was like there?
Speaker 1:He was threatened. His brothers and sisters weren't allowed to talk to him or he'd get punishments. He was told that the family was going to be separate or torn apart.
Speaker 2:Did he then eventually leave the Stafford's property, run away from at least the house?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:And did he do that more than one time? Was that the impression that you got through your interview with him?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. Was there a time that he ran away that something had happened with Sonia that stood out to him?
Speaker 1:There was, he had disclosed. There was one incident he said anytime he would run away, he would always stay on the property, he would never go far. He talked about one particular incident that Sonia came out and found him with a shotgun and told him to get the fuck off her property.
Speaker 2:How old was he when that happened?
Speaker 1:I believe he was around 14.
Speaker 2:Okay, and where did he go from there?
Speaker 1:From there. After that he was on a plane and sent back to Florida.
Speaker 2:And so you had mentioned he went to a boarding school. Was there kind of a gap between Sonia kicking him off the property and him going to boarding school?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And was that the time that he was put on a plane and sent somewhere?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and where was it that he was sent?
Speaker 1:He was sent to Florida.
Speaker 2:Okay, who provided the plane ticket and arranged the flight for him.
Speaker 1:Sonia did.
Speaker 2:So he was 14 when he went to Florida, I think, as you've testified. What did he describe to you about when he arrived at Florida? Was there anyone waiting for him?
Speaker 1:No, he said when he got to the airport. I believe in his interview he said he flew into Jacksonville. He got off the plane. There was no one there waiting for him so he was essentially on his own. He said he started walking from the airport trying to find areas that he remembered from when he was down there and he essentially eventually got help from people that he ran into and they had used social media to try and find his biological family that was still in Florida.
Speaker 2:And so at some point when he returns from Florida and goes to this boarding school, was it close to the Stafford home where the boarding school is located?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And how long was he at the boarding school?
Speaker 1:Around four years.
Speaker 2:Did Brian or Sonia ever visit him while he was there?
Speaker 1:Not one time.
Speaker 2:Was he able to see his brothers and sisters while he was at the boarding school?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Did Victim 7 disclose to you that he enjoyed being at the boarding school more than he enjoyed living with Sonia?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And while he was living with the Staffords prior to him getting kicked out and going to the boarding school, did Victim 7 tell you that he was not allowed to have contact with his family in Florida?
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:And who would have prevented him from having contact with them.
Speaker 1:Sonia.
Speaker 2:So, since he's left the Stafford home, did victim seven talk about having contact with his brothers and sisters who were living with the Staffords?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And what did he tell you about how the Staffords have impacted his brothers and sisters?
Speaker 1:He described it as his brothers and sisters were mentally messed up.
Speaker 2:And did he talk about victim seven specifically?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:And Victim 8 is currently in Victim 7's care.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and as far as you know, did Victim 7 ever tell you about Sonia providing any money to him to care for Victim 8?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and what did he tell you?
Speaker 1:He had received some money from Sonia very little, because I believe victim six had to essentially pry it out of Sonia. Victim six had disclosed that. She had pretty much told Sonia hey, victim seven can't afford. He's out on his own. You know only family that he's taking care of. He can't financially afford to take care of victim eight. You are still responsible for victim eight. You need to chip in and help. So I think at some point he may have gotten very minimal payments to help with that.
Speaker 2:Okay, but we don't have, like a specific dollar amount.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Okay, so then you had mentioned in the last group of kids that was adopted from Florida that there was an older sister that did not get adopted, named M. Did you end up interviewing her during your investigation?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:And did she at any point ever live with the Staffords?
Speaker 1:Yes, but she was only there for a few months.
Speaker 2:Okay. How did she describe the kids at the Stafford house when she was there? Did she refer to them as being brainwashed?
Speaker 1:She did describe the other kids as being brainwashed. Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2:Did you get the sense from her interview that she, like victim seven, was noncompliant with Sonia's rules?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And did she make the comment that Sonia and that the Staffords would not? Yes, yes, yes. Your interview with child M did you get the impression that Sonia labeled her as a problem?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What punishments would Sonia use instead of physical violence on M when she was there?
Speaker 1:She used verbal, verbal punishment. She would talk about the other kids, the siblings and things like that.
Speaker 2:Now when she would talk about victim M? Sorry, I said child, but she's also a victim too. She had to live there To the other kids that were in the home.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did it kind of have an isolating effect of leaving M as sort of the odd man out?
Speaker 1:Yes, it did.
Speaker 2:Did she observe any situations with her younger sisters which would have been victim two and victim four with her younger sisters which would have been victim two and victim four that were concerning to her.
Speaker 1:She did. She talked about one incident where she saw victim four crying. She said that Sonia told her to shut up and told Brian to take her into the woodshed.
Speaker 2:Did she ever observe her sisters exhibiting any behaviors while they were at the Stafford's that concerned her?
Speaker 1:She did. Em had described essentially that she had pretty much raised her siblings up to that point and she had talked about three incidents where the girls were having accidents or peeing the bed, which she said was not normal for them. She had attributed that to what was going on at the Staffords.
Speaker 2:Did Em basically get into arguments with the Staffords about how they ran things, specifically arguments over the girls and all the kids having to do farm work and the physical discipline that they were using.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did that result in M disclosing to her caseworker and trying to get her to make a report to DCS?
Speaker 1:Yes, it did. Sonia had made a comment to her that if she didn't like it she could tell her caseworker about it.
Speaker 2:And did you know if M ended up doing that?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:Okay, did M end up getting kicked out of the Stafford home?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so her other siblings, who at the time were victim nine, victim two and victim four. They ended up being adopted correct.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:And was it Em's impression that victim nine just kind of wanted to be there because there was four-wheelers?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what Em had said during her interview.
Speaker 2:And did she also say that the younger girls were too scared to say anything, so they stayed?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so, after interviewing him, did you also interview victim nine?
Speaker 1:I did not. That was done by another detective.
Speaker 2:And in reviewing a victim nine's interview, did you learn that the first Continuing a Victim 9's interview, did you learn that the first that Victim 9 was originally legally Victim 9, but had changed his name to Victim 9 during the adoption process at some point?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and he was the last group of Florida kids from 2015,. Correct?
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:Okay, and in Victim 9's interview did he disclose things that were fairly consistent with the rest of the kids up to this point?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:And did he disclose things like they had to work from sunup to sundown.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did he specifically mention anything about how much?
Speaker 1:weight he had lost from the time he was there to the time he had left. He did. He said he had lost a significant amount of weight when he was there. He started at around 230 pounds and he lost almost 125 pounds.
Speaker 2:And did he also say pretty consistent things that the other kids would say about when he got kicked out or whenever he turned 18? Yes, he did did you talk about a time where he was so hungry he stole food out of the pantry? Yes, he did and did you get the impression that through victim nine's interview and throughout some of the others, that sonia seemed to have a division of labor where she would have victim nine and some other boys do outside work and the girls would do work inside the house?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did victim nine also talk about having to massage Sonia's feet to get extra privileges.
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:What did he disclose about that?
Speaker 1:He wanted to watch TV, so essentially, sonia would let him massage her feet in order to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:And did he say that he never got any money from Brian or Sonia?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, after interviewing Victim 9, is that all of the kids that had been in and out of the house at one point that were adopted, that we have discussed?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so, moving on from victim nine, did you interview some of the family members surrounding the Staffords? We've talked about Brian's brother. Did you also interview Sonia's biological mother?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:And what was her name?
Speaker 1:We're just going to refer to her as MH.
Speaker 2:Was she interviewed a number of times throughout this investigation?
Speaker 1:Yes, she was interviewed several times.
Speaker 2:Okay, can you provide the court with a summary of the interviews with MH that were relevant to your investigation?
Speaker 1:So MH lives in California. She at one point lived in Tennessee as well with victim one had went away and stayed with her. She talks about how Sonia has told her that she's not to have contact with any of the kids. She said that last time she had contact was approximately four years ago. She talked about an incident where she was in Indiana visiting and had brought some Christmas presents for the kids and Sonia had told her that essentially she wasn't going to see the kids. She could leave the presents on the driveway and, you know, just leave.
Speaker 1:She talks about how the kids all they had to do was work and they were not able to play. If they were able to play it was a luxury. She did talk a little bit about their education and said that the kids were on their own for their schooling. She did talk about other times that she had been there to visit and saw some of the kids that had been pushed against the walls, had their fingers or fist in their face and thought that Sonia was intimidating the kids. And then she also talked about how she witnessed Sonia use her knees, her legs and kind of struck the kids in the stomach.
Speaker 1:She talked a little bit about the consistency with the food and stuff. She said if the kids didn't finish their jobs, they essentially just got their peanut butter and jelly sandwich or, I'm sorry, just peanut butter sandwich, and then they went to bed. The kids weren't allowed to visit with her when she was there and that they had too much school and chores to do. She also made the comment that she didn't think Sonia liked seeing the kids happy.
Speaker 2:Did she ever corroborate a lot of what the kids have talked about? Sonia's scheme, kind of rewarded or encouraged snitching or telling on each other. Did MH corroborate that?
Speaker 1:Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:Did she also talk about any specific incidents of food withholding in addition to the peanut butter sandwich? Did she talk about an incident with a moldy cake in victim one?
Speaker 1:She did. She said that there was a cake that was moldy and she had talked about how victim one was told to go give it to the chickens and just let the chickens and animals eat it. She said that victim one went to take it and instead of giving it to the animals, she ate it herself because she was so hungry and she didn't get those types of food in the house.
Speaker 2:Did MH also talk about how there were only sweets in the house for Brian and Sonia and that they would often eat them in front of the kids?
Speaker 1:She did.
Speaker 2:Did she corroborate Victim 6's interview with you about the last day Victim 6 was on the farm? Had Victim 6 told MH about the incident where Sonia kind of pulled her out of the truck?
Speaker 1:Yes, MH confirmed that information.
Speaker 2:Okay. Was MH aware of Victim 11's pregnancy? She was. Did she say Was MH aware of victim 11's pregnancy?
Speaker 1:She was.
Speaker 2:Did she say how she became aware of it?
Speaker 1:I believe when I interviewed her she had learned about it from Kay, the biological daughter of Brian and Sonia.
Speaker 2:Did she also mention the kids from Oregon and corroborate some of the information you had learned, specifically about X writing the note about wanting to harm himself when he lived there?
Speaker 1:She did. She had confirmed the children from Oregon. She did also talk about the note about wanting to harm himself. She did also talk a little bit about the removal of the kids from Oregon because she had said that she had tried writing a letter to the courts in Oregon and I believe she indicated she went to testify or tried to testify at the court hearing. But she was familiar with the situation with Oregon kids as well.
Speaker 2:And you had mentioned previously that victim one had lived with her for a short or for some period of time. Did she tell you anything about what had happened when victim one lived with her? That kind of stood out in your investigation.
Speaker 1:She did. There was an incident that she talked about specifically. I believe it was the second time that Victim One was staying there. Mh and her husband had gotten Victim One a cell phone and she had thought that Victim One was downstairs like shaving her legs because they said that she had a pool. So she thought she was getting ready to go legs because they said that she had a pool, so she thought she was getting ready to go swimming. She said that she came downstairs to see what kind you know was taking her so long and then when she opened the door, victim one kind of in shock, a little like red-faced or embarrassed. She said initially she didn't think anything of it at first, so left and came back down and asked Victim 1, like what's going on? You know why are you red or you know, kind of seeing what was going on.
Speaker 1:And Victim 1 had told inmates that she wasn't going to be happy with something that she'd done. Victim one disclosed to inmates that she had been talking to a gentleman, an older gentleman believed to be like in his 20s and was sending nude photographs of herself to him and he was sending stuff back to her. Inmate said that at this point she was in kind of a disbelief Inmate said you know, she's older, this isn't stuff that really that she really takes care of. So she said she had reached out to Sonia and told Sonia essentially hey, you need to come pick up victim one, we've had an accident and disclosed all of that to her. She said they met like halfway, gave the device to Sonia and told her what happened. And then victim one returned back to the farm with Brian and Sonia.
Speaker 2:And so we've talked about a lot and some of the things that have already been brought up and to our investigation. But there was a mention in the very beginning of your testimony. You said there was a foreign exchange student that lived with the Staffords. Did MH give you any information about something that happened with this foreign exchange student?
Speaker 1:She did. She confirmed that there was a foreign exchange student. She came from Germany, it was through the Monrovia school system. She had talked about an incident where she was visiting and she and Sonia had walked into a bedroom and found M, who was in his 20s, in bed with the foreign exchange student.
Speaker 2:Was MH aware of how old this foreign exchange student was and how old M was? Did she remember any of these circumstances?
Speaker 1:I believe she said M was in his 20s and the foreign exchange student was around 15 or 16 at the time.
Speaker 2:Did she also tell you throughout her interviews that Kay commented about what has been going on with the investigation to MH, specifically about things that are coming down the pipeline for Brian?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What did she say?
Speaker 1:MH disclosed in her interview that during a phone conversation with Kay that she had told MH that Brian was going to prison for 10 or 15 years for grooming. She also talked about how Brian and victim 11 had moved to Newcastle, which is close to a prison in itself. Kay also told MH that she told her specifically what was going on, that it just would make the situation worse.
Speaker 2:And so at the beginning, when you were providing background for the court about the bio kids, you talked about Cody and Cody's suicide. With some of the information you learned about Cody's suicide, did that come from MH?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And did MH, in her interview, talk about Cody seeming suicidal in the months leading up to his suicide?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Did she also talk about? You mentioned family members treating Cody kind of differently in comparison to the other kids. He received poor treatment. Did Sonia or I'm sorry, not Sonia did MH tell you all of that information?
Speaker 1:Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and she's the one that gave you the information about where in the house Cody committed suicide.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:And that sort of? In your investigation did that seem to be a theme looking at what happened with X and how Sonia treated victim A, that she singled out certain kids and treated them a certain way? Yes, that she singled out certain kids and treated them a certain way yes, so in addition to MH, did you also interview W and JK?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:And are W and JK the in-laws of Victim 10?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and when was WK interviewed?
Speaker 1:July 3rd of 23, or, I'm sorry, 24.
Speaker 2:And to give the court some perspective. I suppose was WK. Did he accompany Victim 10 on May 22nd to the Stafford property when DCS and law enforcement were there?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:And so is he on body cam making statements to law enforcement.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did he tell you in his interview that Victim 10 has disclosed certain things to him along the way about his time with the Staffords?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And was what WK told you about what happened with Victim disclosed to him consistent with victim 10's disclosure? Yes it was so the physical abuse, the sexual abuse that was going on, that was all consistent.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. Did WK ever visit the Stafford home prior to the investigation kicking off?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:And what did he tell you about his observations of how Sonia treated the kids while he was there?
Speaker 1:He described the kids as being treated like slaves.
Speaker 2:And did he expand on what he meant by that?
Speaker 1:He talked about how they weren't able to participate in the functions that they were there for. He said that they are always working and doing things while he was there.
Speaker 2:Was there a time that he talked about being there and Sonia having some a variety of food and activities and games to participate in and that the younger girls were yelled at and told that they couldn't engage in any of that?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And was, from your view, with WK. Did that seem pretty consistent with how Sonia would treat them?
Speaker 1:Yes, it did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so, since he was there the night that the girls were removed in your interview, did he ever tell you if the girls were around him and talking to other people when DCS was there on May 22nd of 2024?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:Did he ever hear the girls saying anything to anybody when he was present on scene?
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 2:And what did he overhear?
Speaker 1:He said he overheard the girls talking about how they didn't want to be there anymore. They were tired of the beatings, the yellings and the arguing and the chores.
Speaker 2:When they were talking about this, were they disclosing this to VF?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and we're going to, I guess, jump ahead a little bit. But, VF, is she now the adopted mother of victim two, three and four?
Speaker 1:Yes, she is.
Speaker 2:She was placement at the time when the kids were removed. Is that correct?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so he wasn't present when the girls were disclosing things to VF. Yes, okay, and so he wasn't present when the girls were disclosing things to VF yes. Did WK talk about someone coming over to the girls and him and VF while they were disclosing what happened with Sonia?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Who was that person?
Speaker 1:That was Brian.
Speaker 2:What happened when the girls saw Brian approaching?
Speaker 1:They kind of shut down and stopped talking when Brian approached.
Speaker 2:Was he there when the family case manager in told the family that the girls would be staying with VF?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And did the girls go inside the house to kind of gather some of their belongings so that they would have some of their own things when they were going to stay with VF?
Speaker 1:Yes, they did.
Speaker 2:Did victim four or any of the girls tell you what happened? Or tell I'm sorry, tell WK what happened when they went inside to gather their clothes?
Speaker 1:Yes, they disclosed when they went inside to get their things that they were given a nasty look from Sonia and described it as a look of death.
Speaker 2:And so, after interviewing WK, did you talk to his wife JK?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:And again, she is the mother-in-law of victim 10.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And throughout your interview with her did she tell you that throughout her time knowing victim 10, he's kind of shared some things about going or what happened on the farm with the Staffords.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and in her interview did she corroborate the battery resulting in serious bodily injury on Victim 10, where he lost consciousness that he had told her at some point.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. Did she also say that Victim 10 had told her that the kids were instructed to lie to DCS when they would come out to the farm?
Speaker 1:Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so you've also, in your investigation, interviewed the biological children.
Speaker 1:I did. Yes, I have.
Speaker 2:And in Kay's interview when you went to go set that up, did you go to her home?
Speaker 1:I did. I had tried reaching out to her several times on the phone, so at that point I actually went out to her residence to see if I could make contact with her.
Speaker 2:And did her husband answer the door?
Speaker 1:Yes, he did.
Speaker 2:What did he say when he realized you were there?
Speaker 1:I identified myself to him and he said you are here to interview her about Brian.
Speaker 2:Did Kay end up coming and interviewing?
Speaker 1:Yes, she did, and that's all we're going to have on the probable cause affidavit today. And I tell you, me and Julie are so glad that we're getting through this, because some of this shit is really heart wrenching to even read or to think about. I mean, you get a visual in your mind when you read shit or you hear shit and that's kind of what we're doing. It's disgusting to even think about or to have in your mind. We're just trying to report on this and get it out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and luckily we got an interview with one of the biological parents of a set of the children that were adopted and I know the big elephant in the room may be well, why were these children there? Well, let's stop there and not judge the parents of these children that were placed there, because it could happen for all different kinds of reasons, you know, even reasons out of their control. So let's just give them a little grace, because what we're focusing on is Brian and Sonia Stafford and the things that they have done.
Speaker 1:And I I really think people would be interested in what she has to say, because that I mean that poor girl went through hell too.
Speaker 2:She sure did, and so on our next episode we are going to finish up the last part of the probable cause affidavit, and then I'm going to share a few bits and pieces from my interview with her, and I kind of want to tell her story so everybody can hear what she has to say.
Speaker 1:She deserves her story told. She really does Amen. I'll tell you what I've had to turn off my Apple Watch because reading some of this shit on here, man, my heart rate monitor was like going up to 110.
Speaker 2:And your Apple Watch wouldn't shut up.
Speaker 1:No, it wouldn't shut up.
Speaker 2:Well, that's it for this evening, and we will be dropping the next episode tomorrow at 7 pm.
Speaker 1:So I can't wait to get through this PCA.
Speaker 2:Neither can I and I can't wait for these kids, who had to live like this, to get justice.
Speaker 1:Me too. I'm excited to tell the interview story tomorrow, and until then we hope you have a good day. Good night to tell the interview story tomorrow, and until then we hope you have a good day, a good night. We'll see you next time.
